tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-140938929136406282.post5240117797515868602..comments2023-11-18T15:42:20.251-05:00Comments on DinoGoss: You're Doing It Wrong: CGI Feathered DinosaursMatt Martyniukhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04220900229537564466noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-140938929136406282.post-5877063888276142772013-12-19T09:39:49.478-05:002013-12-19T09:39:49.478-05:00Complex simplicity! It's hard to be rid of the...Complex simplicity! It's hard to be rid of the popular image of reptilian dinosaurs because people love it. Don't worry, in time the majority of us will grow to better like the "feathery future". All we need is more awesome art depicting this accuracy in movies and renderings alike.Dinoslayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03629731241972912071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-140938929136406282.post-38359864691633105622013-07-13T12:59:16.762-04:002013-07-13T12:59:16.762-04:00I think while your advice is spot on in general, i...I think while your advice is spot on in general, it all depends what your budget & knowledge is.<br />The biggest issue is just having a feather groom tool that allows specifying a full body silhouette shape (basically an offset surface of the actual body consisting of a mesh representing the actual skin) which then steers feather length.<br /><br />The longer the feathers, the bigger the issue of interpenetration becomes.<br /><br />Even if you are on small budget, here's a master thesis that has solutions using off the shelf tools (Maya) to get feather interpenetration solved: http://nccastaff.bournemouth.ac.uk/jmacey/MastersProjects/Msc05/mnewport_MastersThesis.pdf<br />There is also a paper detailing the solution used for the movie 'Rango'. Not many details are given in<br />http://webstaff.itn.liu.se/~perla/Siggraph2011/content/talks/20-bowline.pdf but there is a reference to the paper "Collision-Free Construction of Animated Feathers Using Implicit Constraint Surfaces" of which I wasn't able to find publicly accessible copy online, unfortunately.<br /> <br />Also of interest:<br />http://cg.cs.uni-bonn.de/project-pages/hairmodeling/<br />virtualritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00558452573597221013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-140938929136406282.post-8833350755806791832013-07-12T01:20:38.589-04:002013-07-12T01:20:38.589-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Laurenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06513454638877799938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-140938929136406282.post-62990330867798515122013-06-05T09:59:22.648-04:002013-06-05T09:59:22.648-04:00You're doing it wrong - the makers of Jurassic...You're doing it wrong - the makers of Jurassic Park 4 should also note that feathered raptors look much scarier than lizard raptors. But then again, I wonder how the JP team would go if they wanted to restore real raptors ...LRLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02220529915349936285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-140938929136406282.post-7555591721256374272013-06-04T14:16:32.514-04:002013-06-04T14:16:32.514-04:00Great post Matt. I might defend the Aurornis reco...Great post Matt. I might defend the Aurornis reconstruction a bit in that, while it does look a bit like an unpreened, ragged, molting animal, I rather wonder if that was on purpose - the final render looks a lot like a juvenile modern bird molting into adult contour feathers. Since body feathers are not well known for many non-avian maniraptorans, and given some of the thoughts on heterochrony in bird origins/evolution, this seems like a bit of a neat idea to me. That said, I agree that it probably is not strictly correct - it is more likely that, as you say, the feathering pretty much looked like a modern adult bird (based on the handful of body feather preservation examples we have from paravians etc).<br /><br />I also note, like you have, that even when the hands are corrected with regards to their degree of pronation, the fingers are often modeled as exposed from the wing. I suspect that this is the result of trying to keep the fingers "free" as weapons - a bit of mental and artistic gymnastics that goes away as soon as you stop trying to jury rig the forelimbs into prey capture units.Michael Habibhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03641371798541261487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-140938929136406282.post-75491786971010811382013-06-04T14:00:16.024-04:002013-06-04T14:00:16.024-04:00May require a more complex model to solve this:
N...May require a more complex model to solve this:<br /><br />Neck is a construct with multiple segments, but feathers on the neck have to be constrected as different modules, ones which are bound to their neck segment, but align to one another. They stick out appropriately, but when the neck beds the feathers attempt to align to the raches of their neighbor neck-segment feathers. Heavy layering, such as when the neck is more U-shaped, should result in less apparent feather movement despite deep neck movement. Noting that feathers move in tracts may help: you don't need to feather every segment!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-140938929136406282.post-52484095885537086462013-06-04T12:39:44.845-04:002013-06-04T12:39:44.845-04:00Well stated! Glad to see this issue summarized ver...Well stated! Glad to see this issue summarized very clearly.<br /><br />I learned a lot of this in school a number of years ago when modeling/shading a cormorant. I quickly ended up skipping any sort of fur systems, and essentially using instanced geometry of a couple of different types of modeled feathers, changing up scale/orientation attributes here and there - but I only did this for the wings/scapulars/tailfeathers. The more I left the body alone, with a simple, relatively flat shader the better it looked - especially for the sleek silhouette of a diving bird.<br /><br /> There's really no reason to do individual feathers that cover the entire body. If you need the detail, that can be a done as a special case, with a system designed specifically for the shots in mind. And even with that, you would want to start with some sort of base shape resembling the body contours. Plus if you plan on animating the animal, avoiding all the inter-penetration is just going to drive you crazy, even with a really great feather rig.Evan Boucherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02091543962628328716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-140938929136406282.post-90532988167119305872013-06-04T10:41:49.816-04:002013-06-04T10:41:49.816-04:00YES! And... no.
Especially when referring to cg ...YES! And... no. <br /><br />Especially when referring to cg models for animation.<br />If you want the neck to possess the full range of dynamism, you'll need to solve the fact that feathers preserve volume while sliding over one another. Turn that chicken's head towards the back and those polys will collapse. <br />Solution should respect boths needs....<br /><br />Heinrich, there are ways to fake the dynamics involved. One way is to have a volume grid, so all the feathers point to a respective point on a 'shell'. Then you just need to avoid them breaking through eah other.Not easy, but definitely not CIA encryption level :-)davidmaashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16696298300141402317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-140938929136406282.post-49264910220707160672013-06-04T10:34:51.074-04:002013-06-04T10:34:51.074-04:00Cool post, Matt. I think the feathered dinosaurs i...Cool post, Matt. I think the feathered dinosaurs in 'Planet Dinosaur' were done in the way you indicate here. I'd never seen feathers rendered like that before, but it makes perfect sense. Hopefully it'll catch on.Mark Wittonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02524696111911168322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-140938929136406282.post-18212513922456035002013-06-04T10:20:01.293-04:002013-06-04T10:20:01.293-04:00Apparently this is basically what they did for the...Apparently this is basically what they did for the bird in Up. It's really impressive to see the feathers moving around in a realistic way, and not just the outermost layers. The key is that the feathers seem to *not* be moving most of the time, except when the tail is jostled around or they're being fluffed out in a threat display.<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeJ38HE8Q7UMatt Martyniukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04220900229537564466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-140938929136406282.post-80108379366267348432013-06-04T10:14:35.143-04:002013-06-04T10:14:35.143-04:00Yes, Troco's painting is really beautiful. Exa...Yes, Troco's painting is really beautiful. Exactly what I'd imagine the real animal to look like in its environment.Matt Martyniukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04220900229537564466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-140938929136406282.post-40741735578134644512013-06-04T09:56:00.797-04:002013-06-04T09:56:00.797-04:00Yup!
That said, I would LOVE to see a model in wh...Yup!<br /><br />That said, I would LOVE to see a model in which all feathers are individually rendered correctly - computed, I guess, for a year or so on a distributed network big enough to crack all CIA encryption simultaneously ;)Heinrich Mallisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14195098490352297671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-140938929136406282.post-88886208922196349732013-06-04T09:54:57.836-04:002013-06-04T09:54:57.836-04:00Good post, I completely agree: most people continu...Good post, I completely agree: most people continue to see feathered dinosaurs as scaly dinosaurs covered with feathers.<br />Although the Hattori's Aurornis is a good work, I'm a bit partisan, and prefer Emiliano Troco's version... probably bacause he made it under my supervision ;-). When Troco asked me how to do the recostruction of Aurornis, I wrote him to image a mix between a tinamou and a pheasant. <br />Andrea Cauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10855060597677361866noreply@blogger.com